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	<title>Comments for Brain Hammer</title>
	<link>http://www.petemandik.com/blog</link>
	<description>Pete Mandik's Intermittently Neurophilosophical Weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on DOGmatic Slumber by Tanasije Gjorgoski</title>
		<link>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/07/01/dogmatic-slumber/#comment-355270</link>
		<author>Tanasije Gjorgoski</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 00:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/07/01/dogmatic-slumber/#comment-355270</guid>
		<description>The title of this post puts to shame all other puns in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The title of this post puts to shame all other puns in the world.</p>
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		<title>Comment on DOGmatic Slumber by Pete Mandik</title>
		<link>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/07/01/dogmatic-slumber/#comment-355230</link>
		<author>Pete Mandik</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 19:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/07/01/dogmatic-slumber/#comment-355230</guid>
		<description>"So I guess this is how you get an amateurish philosophy blog to make some waves out here in cyberspace."

In further support of that thesis, I think the greatest impact Brain Hammer has ever had on cyberspace was to birth these puppies:

http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2007/05/27/introducing-philolsophers/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So I guess this is how you get an amateurish philosophy blog to make some waves out here in cyberspace.&#8221;</p>
<p>In further support of that thesis, I think the greatest impact Brain Hammer has ever had on cyberspace was to birth these puppies:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2007/05/27/introducing-philolsophers/" rel="nofollow">http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2007/05/27/introducing-philolsophers/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on DOGmatic Slumber by Ian Olasov</title>
		<link>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/07/01/dogmatic-slumber/#comment-355229</link>
		<author>Ian Olasov</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 19:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/07/01/dogmatic-slumber/#comment-355229</guid>
		<description>My amateurish blog, that is.  http://olasov-over.blogspot.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My amateurish blog, that is.  <a href="http://olasov-over.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://olasov-over.blogspot.com/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on DOGmatic Slumber by Ian Olasov</title>
		<link>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/07/01/dogmatic-slumber/#comment-355228</link>
		<author>Ian Olasov</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 19:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/07/01/dogmatic-slumber/#comment-355228</guid>
		<description>I would like officially to take credit for this comparison. My girlfriend took the picture of the dog, Sally Monster; I supplied the Kant.

So I guess this is how you get an amateurish philosophy blog to make some waves out here in cyberspace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like officially to take credit for this comparison. My girlfriend took the picture of the dog, Sally Monster; I supplied the Kant.</p>
<p>So I guess this is how you get an amateurish philosophy blog to make some waves out here in cyberspace.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Defining &#8220;Information&#8221; by Eric Steinhart</title>
		<link>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/05/28/defining-information/#comment-304965</link>
		<author>Eric Steinhart</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/05/28/defining-information/#comment-304965</guid>
		<description>Eric T makes a very good point - there are many different meanings of "information".  

It might be useful to break out your entries according to some taxonomy.  

Information -- in communications theory;
Information-- as signal or indicator content;
Information -- etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric T makes a very good point - there are many different meanings of &#8220;information&#8221;.  </p>
<p>It might be useful to break out your entries according to some taxonomy.  </p>
<p>Information &#8212; in communications theory;<br />
Information&#8211; as signal or indicator content;<br />
Information &#8212; etc.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Defining &#8220;Information&#8221; by Eric Thomson</title>
		<link>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/05/28/defining-information/#comment-304896</link>
		<author>Eric Thomson</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/05/28/defining-information/#comment-304896</guid>
		<description>Eric S: entropy has to do not just with the number of states, but the probability distribution defined over those states (number of states does put an upper bound on entropy of course).  

We've been discussing the point you make about semantics &lt;a href="http://philosophyofbrains.com/2008/05/28/an-information-taxonomy.aspx" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. 
'Information' is not univocal. It has a Shannon sense and other senses that Pete is getting at. For instance in ordinary language 'misinformation' exists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric S: entropy has to do not just with the number of states, but the probability distribution defined over those states (number of states does put an upper bound on entropy of course).  </p>
<p>We&#8217;ve been discussing the point you make about semantics <a href="http://philosophyofbrains.com/2008/05/28/an-information-taxonomy.aspx" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br />
&#8216;Information&#8217; is not univocal. It has a Shannon sense and other senses that Pete is getting at. For instance in ordinary language &#8216;misinformation&#8217; exists.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Defining &#8220;Information&#8221; by Pete Mandik</title>
		<link>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/05/28/defining-information/#comment-304739</link>
		<author>Pete Mandik</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/05/28/defining-information/#comment-304739</guid>
		<description>Pat, Eric &#038; Eric,

thanks for your help!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat, Eric &#038; Eric,</p>
<p>thanks for your help!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Defining &#8220;Information&#8221; by Eric Steinhart</title>
		<link>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/05/28/defining-information/#comment-304454</link>
		<author>Eric Steinhart</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/05/28/defining-information/#comment-304454</guid>
		<description>Information, in its technical sense, is not a semantic notion; it has nothing to do with inference or truth or aboutness or reference.  It's a measure of how finely a signal divides the number of alternative states of its source.  A signal that carries 5 bits of information divides the source into 32 alternatives.  For the receiver, this entails a corresponding reduction of uncertainty about the source.  Note carefully that information is a quantity, an amount.  It's like size.  And thus it is measured by a number, the number of bits, which are binary alternatives.  

To be precise: information is a property of a channel; it's a channel that carries 5 bits of information; thus to talk about information is to talk about the size of the phase space of a channel - the number of possible alternative states of the channel.  

When used semantically, that is, when information is confused with content, it's never a matter of truth or inference.  It's always a matter of probability - namely, conditional probability.  The probability that somone is at the door given that the doorbell rings may be very high, but is never 1.  To set it to 1 is Dretske's famous error - a channel for which the conditional probability is 1 is a channel with no noise. It is also a channel in which the relations between source and receiver are logical necessities.  But to say the relation between the doorbell ringing and a person being at the door is a matter of logic is obviously false.  The relation is contingent.  The mathematical (e.g. engineering) analysis of signals makes all this plain.

But probably what I'm writing is irrelevant - my experience is that philosophers have taken this very clear scientific - engineering concept and made a mess out of it.  Oh well.  You'll have to do the best you can to make it presentable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Information, in its technical sense, is not a semantic notion; it has nothing to do with inference or truth or aboutness or reference.  It&#8217;s a measure of how finely a signal divides the number of alternative states of its source.  A signal that carries 5 bits of information divides the source into 32 alternatives.  For the receiver, this entails a corresponding reduction of uncertainty about the source.  Note carefully that information is a quantity, an amount.  It&#8217;s like size.  And thus it is measured by a number, the number of bits, which are binary alternatives.  </p>
<p>To be precise: information is a property of a channel; it&#8217;s a channel that carries 5 bits of information; thus to talk about information is to talk about the size of the phase space of a channel - the number of possible alternative states of the channel.  </p>
<p>When used semantically, that is, when information is confused with content, it&#8217;s never a matter of truth or inference.  It&#8217;s always a matter of probability - namely, conditional probability.  The probability that somone is at the door given that the doorbell rings may be very high, but is never 1.  To set it to 1 is Dretske&#8217;s famous error - a channel for which the conditional probability is 1 is a channel with no noise. It is also a channel in which the relations between source and receiver are logical necessities.  But to say the relation between the doorbell ringing and a person being at the door is a matter of logic is obviously false.  The relation is contingent.  The mathematical (e.g. engineering) analysis of signals makes all this plain.</p>
<p>But probably what I&#8217;m writing is irrelevant - my experience is that philosophers have taken this very clear scientific - engineering concept and made a mess out of it.  Oh well.  You&#8217;ll have to do the best you can to make it presentable.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Defining &#8220;Information&#8221; by Eric Thomson</title>
		<link>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/05/28/defining-information/#comment-291155</link>
		<author>Eric Thomson</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 17:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/05/28/defining-information/#comment-291155</guid>
		<description>Examples would help. This is a tough set of concepts.

&lt;i&gt;The mathematical theory of information (Shannon and Weaver’s “Mathematical Theory of Communication”) provides means for defining amounts of information (such as “bits”) in terms of the number and probability of possible events.&lt;/i&gt;

This might be touched up a bit. They define the  mutual information (aka transmitted information aka transinformation) between X and Y as a measure of statistical dependence between the two signals, a sort of general nonlinear correlation measure that detects any statistical dependence, not just linear correlation but any deviation from independence. 

Surprisingly, transinformation also is equivalent to the reduction in the number of bits required to specify X (channel intput) given Y (channel output). 

The usual gloss, which you should probably include despite its mushiness  is that Shannon information transmission is reduction in uncertainty of one signal given another signal. Uncertainty is entropy (H). 

For instance, if X=Y, then maximum information is transmitted about X, since Y completely eliminates uncertainty about X (i.e., H(X&#124;Y)=0). If they are only weakly dependent, you'd get something between 0 and H(X) bits transmitted.

Anyway, there's my shotgun at Shannon.

Dretske defines it generally as 'X carries info about Y if you can learn something about Y from X'. This is close to your 'infer' formulation. I'd prefer a more neutral description in terms of ideal observers (e.g.,, 'A machine, given X, could predict the value of Y within such and such degree of accuracy') but that is likely way beyond the scope of a dictionary def..

I look forward to your paper from the conference, and really wish I could have gone. It looks like a really interesting paper, and that's saying a lot in the saturated field of qualia studies with its high shit to goodness ratio.

Incidentally, did you see the recent paper on ego-to-object centered coordinate transforms in monkey parietal? It's &lt;a href="http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/abstract/28/20/5218" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Examples would help. This is a tough set of concepts.</p>
<p><i>The mathematical theory of information (Shannon and Weaver’s “Mathematical Theory of Communication”) provides means for defining amounts of information (such as “bits”) in terms of the number and probability of possible events.</i></p>
<p>This might be touched up a bit. They define the  mutual information (aka transmitted information aka transinformation) between X and Y as a measure of statistical dependence between the two signals, a sort of general nonlinear correlation measure that detects any statistical dependence, not just linear correlation but any deviation from independence. </p>
<p>Surprisingly, transinformation also is equivalent to the reduction in the number of bits required to specify X (channel intput) given Y (channel output). </p>
<p>The usual gloss, which you should probably include despite its mushiness  is that Shannon information transmission is reduction in uncertainty of one signal given another signal. Uncertainty is entropy (H). </p>
<p>For instance, if X=Y, then maximum information is transmitted about X, since Y completely eliminates uncertainty about X (i.e., H(X|Y)=0). If they are only weakly dependent, you&#8217;d get something between 0 and H(X) bits transmitted.</p>
<p>Anyway, there&#8217;s my shotgun at Shannon.</p>
<p>Dretske defines it generally as &#8216;X carries info about Y if you can learn something about Y from X&#8217;. This is close to your &#8216;infer&#8217; formulation. I&#8217;d prefer a more neutral description in terms of ideal observers (e.g.,, &#8216;A machine, given X, could predict the value of Y within such and such degree of accuracy&#8217;) but that is likely way beyond the scope of a dictionary def..</p>
<p>I look forward to your paper from the conference, and really wish I could have gone. It looks like a really interesting paper, and that&#8217;s saying a lot in the saturated field of qualia studies with its high shit to goodness ratio.</p>
<p>Incidentally, did you see the recent paper on ego-to-object centered coordinate transforms in monkey parietal? It&#8217;s <a href="http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/abstract/28/20/5218" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Defining &#8220;Information&#8221; by pat</title>
		<link>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/05/28/defining-information/#comment-291021</link>
		<author>pat</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 06:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.petemandik.com/blog/2008/05/28/defining-information/#comment-291021</guid>
		<description>Hi Pete,

what about the widely cited (minimal) definition from Gregory Bateson:

"A 'bit' of information is definable as a difference which makes a difference."

[Bateson, Gregory (1972): Steps to an Ecology of Mind. Chicago: University of Chicago Press 2000, p. 315.]

Would it be too minimal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Pete,</p>
<p>what about the widely cited (minimal) definition from Gregory Bateson:</p>
<p>&#8220;A &#8216;bit&#8217; of information is definable as a difference which makes a difference.&#8221;</p>
<p>[Bateson, Gregory (1972): Steps to an Ecology of Mind. Chicago: University of Chicago Press 2000, p. 315.]</p>
<p>Would it be too minimal?</p>
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